Comments on: Values that shake the world: II – Tolerance in the Netherlands http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2004/11/22/values-that-shake-the-world-ii-tolerance-in-the-netherlands/ EUlogical reflections Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:57:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: precursor fiend http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2004/11/22/values-that-shake-the-world-ii-tolerance-in-the-netherlands/comment-page-1/#comment-41515 precursor fiend Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:57:44 +0000 http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2004/11/22/values-that-shake-the-world-ii-tolerance-in-the-netherlands/#comment-41515 you forgot the other side: the insults öf extreme free speech work in 2 directions. as a young boy I, as a "autochtonous" Dutchman was regarded inferior by many of the immigrant groups youths. Daily I was called "kankerkaas" (cancercheese) or "filthy jew" or just plain "faggot". In the early 90's, in the big cities, the poorly educated Turkish-Dutch and North African-Dutch children were filled with hate towards the "autochtonous" by their social lagging behind (which is indeed caused partially by defected social policy of respective Dutch governments) ánd cultural differences. This also resulted in reverse discrimination, and as a countersymptom: discrimination. North Africans tend to be more direct in speech, which is contrary to the dutch spirit of "minding your own business" and not being too direct in conduct. Anyway the situation seems to be improved, notwithstanding all the propaganda that Holland is on fire. The education of mentioned youth groups has greatly improved in the last 15 years, which results in a society which is actually better balanced and where tolerance is much greater between the "groups' within society. At my job (government social section) we have a lot of Muslim-women which are scarved in black, and no-one makes a fuss about it. The problems start when everyone starts listening to people like Wilders, a man who exaggerates probelms greatly. In my conversations with people from all over the world, the predominate contention is that we have a country in great social distress. This is not the reality however. It shows only that across the globe the one who shouts the hardest, will be the one that is heard. Regardless whether his views are based on reality. Final note: between Amsterdam and Rotterdam there is an ancient rivalry. The next burgomaster of Rotterdam (pop: 700.000) will be a Moroccan-Dutch politician from Amsterdam! This shows that the social coherence between different groups is actually far better than perceived in the world. Noteworthy in this respect is that the USA only has had 2 or 3 black senators out of a population 80 million African-Americans! The tolerance issues in other countries are far greater than with us here. People listen to the wrong sources in determining there are social problems. you forgot the other side: the insults öf extreme free speech work in 2 directions.
as a young boy I, as a “autochtonous” Dutchman was regarded inferior by many of the immigrant groups youths. Daily I was called “kankerkaas” (cancercheese) or “filthy jew” or just plain “faggot”. In the early 90′s, in the big cities, the poorly educated Turkish-Dutch and North African-Dutch children were filled with hate towards the “autochtonous” by their social lagging behind (which is indeed caused partially by defected social policy of respective Dutch governments) ánd cultural differences. This also resulted in reverse discrimination, and as a countersymptom: discrimination.
North Africans tend to be more direct in speech, which is contrary to the dutch spirit of “minding your own business” and not being too direct in conduct.
Anyway the situation seems to be improved, notwithstanding all the propaganda that Holland is on fire. The education of mentioned youth groups has greatly improved in the last 15 years, which results in a society which is actually better balanced and where tolerance is much greater between the “groups’ within society. At my job (government social section) we have a lot of Muslim-women which are scarved in black, and no-one makes a fuss about it. The problems start when everyone starts listening to people like Wilders, a man who exaggerates probelms greatly. In my conversations with people from all over the world, the predominate contention is that we have a country in great social distress. This is not the reality however. It shows only that across the globe the one who shouts the hardest, will be the one that is heard. Regardless whether his views are based on reality.

Final note: between Amsterdam and Rotterdam there is an ancient rivalry. The next burgomaster of Rotterdam (pop: 700.000) will be a Moroccan-Dutch politician from Amsterdam!

This shows that the social coherence between different groups is actually far better than perceived in the world.

Noteworthy in this respect is that the USA only has had 2 or 3 black senators out of a population 80 million African-Americans! The tolerance issues in other countries are far greater than with us here. People listen to the wrong sources in determining there are social problems.

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