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	<title>Comments on: Oh Ca-nada&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/06/29/oh-ca-nada/</link>
	<description>EUlogical reflections</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 05:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Reflections on European Democracy &#187; Norway gets gay marriage - Ja, vi elsker dette landet!</title>
		<link>http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/06/29/oh-ca-nada/#comment-41239</link>
		<dc:creator>Reflections on European Democracy &#187; Norway gets gay marriage - Ja, vi elsker dette landet!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 00:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/06/29/oh-ca-nada/#comment-41239</guid>
		<description>[...] people of the same or opposite sex can get married&#8221;. After the Netherlands, Belgium, Canada, Spain, and South-Africa, this will take the number of countries in the world that allow homosexuals to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] people of the same or opposite sex can get married&#8221;. After the Netherlands, Belgium, Canada, Spain, and South-Africa, this will take the number of countries in the world that allow homosexuals to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Giebels</title>
		<link>http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/06/29/oh-ca-nada/#comment-4903</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Giebels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:07:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/06/29/oh-ca-nada/#comment-4903</guid>
		<description>
I' m still waiting for the first truly civilized nation that abolishes state-defined marriage altogether...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217; m still waiting for the first truly civilized nation that abolishes state-defined marriage altogether&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: eulogist</title>
		<link>http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/06/29/oh-ca-nada/#comment-3445</link>
		<dc:creator>eulogist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/06/29/oh-ca-nada/#comment-3445</guid>
		<description>Elaib, how so? This &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; only about a change of the law of the state and nothing else. Marriage is a civil contract, defined in law, with important legal, financial, and practical consequences. Marriage also has strong symbolical meaning to most people, whether they are religious or not, and whether they marry in a church or not. As far as I know, getting married without being legally required to involve a church is possible in all civilised countries - which is precisely why I do not see your point.

Churches are free to give or withhold their blessing to whatever kind of relationship they see (un-)fit. Give me one example, just one, of a church in the Netherlands or Belgium that was forced to hold a marriage ceremony for a union it does not agree with. I know that there is none and I am convinced there never will be one.

*esprit d'escalier update* Just wanted to add that most European countries have had laws requiring equal treatment of men and women in employment matters for decades, yet this has never resulted in court orders forcing the Roman Catholic church to ordain women priests. So why this would suddenly become different now laws have started to treat couples equally is beyond me.

Where I do of course agree with you is that churches should indeed not be forced to accept homosexual marriages. That is, I certainly hope that those churches will change their views and I am glad that some already have - but any change in this respect has to (and can only) come from the inside, not from the outside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elaib, how so? This <b>is</b> only about a change of the law of the state and nothing else. Marriage is a civil contract, defined in law, with important legal, financial, and practical consequences. Marriage also has strong symbolical meaning to most people, whether they are religious or not, and whether they marry in a church or not. As far as I know, getting married without being legally required to involve a church is possible in all civilised countries - which is precisely why I do not see your point.</p>
<p>Churches are free to give or withhold their blessing to whatever kind of relationship they see (un-)fit. Give me one example, just one, of a church in the Netherlands or Belgium that was forced to hold a marriage ceremony for a union it does not agree with. I know that there is none and I am convinced there never will be one.</p>
<p>*esprit d&#8217;escalier update* Just wanted to add that most European countries have had laws requiring equal treatment of men and women in employment matters for decades, yet this has never resulted in court orders forcing the Roman Catholic church to ordain women priests. So why this would suddenly become different now laws have started to treat couples equally is beyond me.</p>
<p>Where I do of course agree with you is that churches should indeed not be forced to accept homosexual marriages. That is, I certainly hope that those churches will change their views and I am glad that some already have - but any change in this respect has to (and can only) come from the inside, not from the outside.</p>
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		<title>By: Elaib</title>
		<link>http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/06/29/oh-ca-nada/#comment-3433</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This conservative, and dodgy right winger can see no earthly reason why Homosexual unions should noot be recognised by the state in a similar way in which heterosexual relationships are. Hoever it would be wrong to legally describe them as marriage, and it would be doubly wrong to try to impose society'ssecular views upon the church. So as long a people do not expect to be able to have same sex marriages confirmned by their church, fine. Sadly ourexperioence is not this but a demandthat not only should same sex unions be legitimised and equal in the eyes of the law, but there will be leagl threats against the church with the demands that theyu be recognised  as of equall worth by the deity.
Man does not have the right nor power to do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This conservative, and dodgy right winger can see no earthly reason why Homosexual unions should noot be recognised by the state in a similar way in which heterosexual relationships are. Hoever it would be wrong to legally describe them as marriage, and it would be doubly wrong to try to impose society&#8217;ssecular views upon the church. So as long a people do not expect to be able to have same sex marriages confirmned by their church, fine. Sadly ourexperioence is not this but a demandthat not only should same sex unions be legitimised and equal in the eyes of the law, but there will be leagl threats against the church with the demands that theyu be recognised  as of equall worth by the deity.<br />
Man does not have the right nor power to do that.</p>
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		<title>By: Pascal Van Hecke</title>
		<link>http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/06/29/oh-ca-nada/#comment-2683</link>
		<dc:creator>Pascal Van Hecke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/06/29/oh-ca-nada/#comment-2683</guid>
		<description>Oh, Spain...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4636133.stm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, Spain&#8230;<br />
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4636133.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4636133.stm</a></p>
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