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	<title>Comments on: Polish bigotry &#8211; why bother?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/11/27/this-is-what-they-signed-up-to/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/11/27/this-is-what-they-signed-up-to/</link>
	<description>EUlogical reflections</description>
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		<title>By: kerrygoulde</title>
		<link>http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/11/27/this-is-what-they-signed-up-to/comment-page-1/#comment-6839</link>
		<dc:creator>kerrygoulde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 May 2006 17:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/11/08/this-is-what-they-signed-up-to/#comment-6839</guid>
		<description>They&#039;ve been in existence under a year and already have 450 members (about 330 visible, 120 Moldavians without internet access)... They aim to run candidates by the 2009 EU Parliament elections, providing a direct link between the people and the EU institutions. Joining is free, so please consider it, we are the only pan-European, fully internally democratic political party going...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They&#8217;ve been in existence under a year and already have 450 members (about 330 visible, 120 Moldavians without internet access)&#8230; They aim to run candidates by the 2009 EU Parliament elections, providing a direct link between the people and the EU institutions. Joining is free, so please consider it, we are the only pan-European, fully internally democratic political party going&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: eulogist</title>
		<link>http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/11/27/this-is-what-they-signed-up-to/comment-page-1/#comment-6838</link>
		<dc:creator>eulogist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 May 2006 12:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/11/08/this-is-what-they-signed-up-to/#comment-6838</guid>
		<description>Well, indeed, this looks like an interesting club...! Reading the website I have so far discovered only marginal differences with my own political preferences. How many members do they have?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, indeed, this looks like an interesting club&#8230;! Reading the website I have so far discovered only marginal differences with my own political preferences. How many members do they have?</p>
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		<title>By: kerrygoulde</title>
		<link>http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/11/27/this-is-what-they-signed-up-to/comment-page-1/#comment-6837</link>
		<dc:creator>kerrygoulde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 May 2006 12:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/11/08/this-is-what-they-signed-up-to/#comment-6837</guid>
		<description>Nationalist governments do not reflect the true pan-European spirit we need to make decisions at a higher level.
For those interested in a democratic takeover of EU constitutions and increased transparency and accountability, why not join a grassroots pan-European party such as www.europeunited.org ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nationalist governments do not reflect the true pan-European spirit we need to make decisions at a higher level.<br />
For those interested in a democratic takeover of EU constitutions and increased transparency and accountability, why not join a grassroots pan-European party such as <a href="http://www.europeunited.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.europeunited.org</a> ?</p>
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		<title>By: eulogist</title>
		<link>http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/11/27/this-is-what-they-signed-up-to/comment-page-1/#comment-6379</link>
		<dc:creator>eulogist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 12:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/11/08/this-is-what-they-signed-up-to/#comment-6379</guid>
		<description>@Pierre: You don&#039;t like France a lot, do you?

I would say there is a rather fundamental moral difference between, on the one hand, a government that, despite &lt;em&gt;trying&lt;/em&gt; to achieve that (immigrant) minorities get the education and jobs they need, fails to enact appropriate legislation and policies &lt;em&gt;that work&lt;/em&gt; (re: France and other western European countries), and on the other hand, a government that intentionally incites hatred and existing prejudices, and refuses to protect free speech or to enact appropriate legislation and policies (re: Poland, in this case).

There is even a moral difference between a minister calling people &quot;scum&quot; because they are setting fire to cars, buildings, bus passengers and the police (however unwise it may have been to use that word), and a (prime) minister and president calling people diseased and contagious, and saying society should be cleansed from them when all those people want is just to demonstrate peacefully for more recognition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Pierre: You don&#8217;t like France a lot, do you?</p>
<p>I would say there is a rather fundamental moral difference between, on the one hand, a government that, despite <em>trying</em> to achieve that (immigrant) minorities get the education and jobs they need, fails to enact appropriate legislation and policies <em>that work</em> (re: France and other western European countries), and on the other hand, a government that intentionally incites hatred and existing prejudices, and refuses to protect free speech or to enact appropriate legislation and policies (re: Poland, in this case).</p>
<p>There is even a moral difference between a minister calling people &#8220;scum&#8221; because they are setting fire to cars, buildings, bus passengers and the police (however unwise it may have been to use that word), and a (prime) minister and president calling people diseased and contagious, and saying society should be cleansed from them when all those people want is just to demonstrate peacefully for more recognition.</p>
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		<title>By: PierreM</title>
		<link>http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/11/27/this-is-what-they-signed-up-to/comment-page-1/#comment-6377</link>
		<dc:creator>PierreM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 05:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/11/08/this-is-what-they-signed-up-to/#comment-6377</guid>
		<description>&quot;after consulting the European Parliament, may take appropriate action to combat discrimination based on sex, racial or ethnic origin, religion or belief, disability, age or sexual orientation.&quot;

I don&#039;t think this will go far because the Poles can always kick the other European countries over the blatant, daily, and continuous discrimination against non-European minorities in the other states.

What&#039;s good for the goose is good for the gander:  do you think the French would welcome an EU investigation into the treatment of their minorities in light of recent events?  Or would that be blocked, so the Poles (and Dutch and Danes, etc.) could complain that there is one set of rules for the big countries and another for the small ones, as there already is for fiscal policy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;after consulting the European Parliament, may take appropriate action to combat discrimination based on sex, racial or ethnic origin, religion or belief, disability, age or sexual orientation.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think this will go far because the Poles can always kick the other European countries over the blatant, daily, and continuous discrimination against non-European minorities in the other states.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s good for the goose is good for the gander:  do you think the French would welcome an EU investigation into the treatment of their minorities in light of recent events?  Or would that be blocked, so the Poles (and Dutch and Danes, etc.) could complain that there is one set of rules for the big countries and another for the small ones, as there already is for fiscal policy?</p>
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		<title>By: eulogist</title>
		<link>http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/11/27/this-is-what-they-signed-up-to/comment-page-1/#comment-6373</link>
		<dc:creator>eulogist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/11/08/this-is-what-they-signed-up-to/#comment-6373</guid>
		<description>&#039;Social areas&#039; - nice one :-)

I read that somewhere too. It would not even surprise me if they were successful, the current, post-constitution, eurosceptic tide being in their favour. And (the universality considerations of the above put aside) at first sight this should not even bother me, because if responsibilities are moved away from the EU level giving Poland more autonomy in this area, this will also give Poland less influence on other countries in this area. 

But at second thought this is not true because of the way everything is connected to everything. You cannot have free movement of people, one of the basic EU freedoms, for instance, without an agreement on equal treatment. Even the fact that some countries have gay marriage and some don&#039;t is already causing problems in this area, when married couples try using their right on free movement to move to a different EU country which does not recognise their marriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Social areas&#8217; &#8211; nice one :-)</p>
<p>I read that somewhere too. It would not even surprise me if they were successful, the current, post-constitution, eurosceptic tide being in their favour. And (the universality considerations of the above put aside) at first sight this should not even bother me, because if responsibilities are moved away from the EU level giving Poland more autonomy in this area, this will also give Poland less influence on other countries in this area. </p>
<p>But at second thought this is not true because of the way everything is connected to everything. You cannot have free movement of people, one of the basic EU freedoms, for instance, without an agreement on equal treatment. Even the fact that some countries have gay marriage and some don&#8217;t is already causing problems in this area, when married couples try using their right on free movement to move to a different EU country which does not recognise their marriage.</p>
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		<title>By: beatroot</title>
		<link>http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/11/27/this-is-what-they-signed-up-to/comment-page-1/#comment-6371</link>
		<dc:creator>beatroot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.european-democracy.org/archives/2005/11/08/this-is-what-they-signed-up-to/#comment-6371</guid>
		<description>Great post. But you know, two of the parties that the Kaczynskis are banking on for support have both said before that the terms of Polish entry to the EU should be torn up and new ones negociated.. Perhaps they will be pushing for more autonomy in &#039;social areas&#039;. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post. But you know, two of the parties that the Kaczynskis are banking on for support have both said before that the terms of Polish entry to the EU should be torn up and new ones negociated.. Perhaps they will be pushing for more autonomy in &#8216;social areas&#8217;.</p>
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